Buddleia

[Shirley Roulston]

Kill ragwort weed to save animals

From Simon Hart chief executive Countryside Alliance

The Countryside Alliance will be writing to all local authorities and other bodies in the coming weeks to remind them that they have a duty to control ragwort on their land and must be vigilant, especially where their land abuts farmland.

The threat ragwort poses to animals cannot be underestimated and is something that all landowners, whether public or private, MUST BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.

Taken from the internet to-day.

[Neil Jones]

So, we're back on the Ragwort, tomorrow I'll call in the local vets and asked them how dangerous ragwort is to animals.

Why when I sell my big bale hay to famers, do they ask 'is there any ragwort in this hay'? Its deadly to horses and cattle fresh or dried, its not meant to be a joke, its not something to laugh at.

I found that yes butterflies did go on it but because there was little else in the fields at the end of the summer but dried grass.

You are asking the wrong people the wrong questions.

Firstly asking someone you regard as an expert is not the proper way to get the answer to a scientific question, because you are then reliant on the competence of the expert. If you're vets are good they will agree with the proper scientific consensus which is my view point. My fear is that like many wildlife experts who should know better but say incorrect things about ragwort, the vets may do the same. I have seen several veterinary websites with factual errors on them. Will your vet have tracked down papers and theses written in French for example.
The worst example od supposedly knowledgable people getting it wrong was the Scottish Government consultation. I don't live in Scotland but I was encouraged by a wildlife organisation trying to combat ragwort hysteria to put in a submission because of my specialist knowledge.
Their document contained some real howlers of errors. They thought for example that the toxins persist in the body. They clearly do not. This is really basic biochemistry you know. They are the wrong kind of compound to do this. THIS WAS A GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENT!!

Secondly, It isn't a question of how poisonous the plant is it is a question of what the actual risk is. Hay is a risk . Fresh ragwort isn't unless you are being cruel to your animals and leaving them with no other food at all. Your vet for example won't be an expert on the dispersal of seeds. One of the common hysterical exaggerations. It needs control in certain places where hay is grown but not in most other places. To get a copy of the best study on this I had to turn to a foreign expert. The British Library had disgarded their copy!

What I have done is go to the works of people at the very pinnacle of their profession. I obtained a copy of the standard work on the chemicals in ragwort ( and loads of other plants) and studied it for example. The author is from the Medical Research Laboratories and he has spent years studying it. A far better source than your vet.

I can give you a vet's opinion here. It comes from a vet who wrote to the Sunday Telegraph. This opinion agrees with the science your vet's might not.

"It seems that ragwort is fast becoming the subject of a nationwide outburst of hysteria similar to that caused by salmonella in eggs (News, July 27). In the hope of calming it, I offer the following thoughts.

Yes, ragwort is poisonous to horses, cattle and sometimes sheep. It can cause acute liver damage in young stock, but this is rare. It is most commonly encountered as chronic liver damage in older animals. But ragwort is distasteful to horses and cattle, and they will eat it only if they are half-starved on a pasture that is bare of almost anything else.

In the agricultural depression of the 1930s and during the Second World War, there was far more ragwort around than there is today. There were no selective weedkillers available, so it had to be controlled either by hand-pulling or by allowing sheep to graze off the young plants, which are less poisonous. There were also many more horses in the country, working on farms or pulling delivery vans. Ragwort poisoning was a recognised disease, but not a major problem."

[Jack Harrison]

Where did you find that quote?

From one of the links posted by "Jones the Ragwort"

Jack

[Susie]

Any chance you could continue the debate on ragwort on a thread called ragwort, not this one about buddleia?

I don't give a fiddler's hoot about ragwort and would prefer it if I didn't have to read your posts in the hope that there may be something relevant to the subject in the heading.

[Shirley Roulston]

Lets go back to Buddleia its far nicer, I agree. Lets finish with the ragwort, all agree?

[Susie]

For anyone who doesn't agree there is now a thread in the "General" section of the forum for discussion relating to ragwort.

[eccles]

Can I talk about buddleia there?

[Gruditch]

Ragwort !


Gruditch

[Shirley Roulston]

What was the question again? I've promise someone higher not to mention the 'R' word again Where can I buy a yellow Buddlia. Oh! BTW does anyone what to buy 32 big bale of hay good for horses, no 'R' in it, collect only. Thank you.

[Jack Harrison]

I'm not convinced that yellow Buddleia is as good for butterflies as some people make out. It certainly has never been an impressive attractor in my garden. However, read on.

Shirley. If you want some cuttings of yellow Buddleia, drop me a private message and then I can send you some. I would put inside a sealed plastic bag with that inside a padded container. They root very easily. Indeed, I am growing some of my own yellow cuttings at this moment. The intention is to plant out in a more favourable spot than the present parent plant - that might well be in the wrong place (too shady) to attract butterflies.

Jack

[Susie]

I know that the bees like the yellow buddleias. The only buddleia that the butterflies seem to really like is Dark Knight, although they do feed on others of course.

This is one of my favourites at the moment, and it is still flowering now.

[Denise]

That buddleia is really pretty Susie. I don't think that i've ever seen one that colour.
The only one in my garden that the butterflies DON'T go mad for is the Dark Knight, although the Commas like it.
As Jack says, it's probably the location.

Denise

[Susie]

Perhaps it is just that one which Commas really enjoy? I was at a garden centre (no surprise there!) a month or so ago and there was a whole row of buddleias in bloom. The one the Commas were on was Dark Knight, they were ignoring Lochinch, White Profusion, Pink Delight, etc.

[Piers]

Susie,

That's a beauty - do you know what variety it is...?

Felix.

[Susie]

Yes, it is call "Moonlight", Felix. It cost me all of 70p this year at a village show. I love a bargain!

Next autumn (2009) when the plant is bigger I will be taking cuttings. At that time anyone who wants one can have one.

It is particularly sweetly scented too.

[Susie]

This is the other one I picked up from the show, it is called Golden Glow.

[Susie]

How good have people found Buddleia as an attractant for Hummingbird Hawk-moths? What other plants work? I have tried Red Valerian but cannot get it to flower here for some reason.

Trawling through my old stuff on photobox I came across a clip of a HBH Moth on buddleia. I would guess that the variety was Royal Red from the looks of it.

Click on the link to get it to play. Apologies for the poor quality:

[Piers]

Thanks Susie,

I have a Buddleja × weyeriana 'golden glow' like yours, and I have seen a B × weyeriana 'sun gold' as well, but I have never seen a 'moonlight' - it's a stunner.

I can't wait until someone manages to breed a yellow davidii, now that will be something special...

Felix

[Susie]

I've got sungold as well.

If you can wait til next year you are welcome to a cutting of any of my buddleias.

[Piers]

That's very kind of you - I shall try to remember in the Spring...

Felix.