Favourite European Skippers

Discussion forum for any overseas items (given that this is a "UK" butterflies forum!).
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Roger Gibbons
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Re: Favourite European Skippers

Post by Roger Gibbons »

No. 6 Dusky Grizzled Skipper (P. cacaliae)
I like this species because it lives only at high altitudes in the most inhospitable climates. A few years ago I arrived in the Queyras one sunny July afternoon but too late to see any butterflies. The next morning I woke up to snow-covered scenery and 3C temperature. I took a walk anyway and a few moments later a female cacaliae landed at my feet. It was greatly appreciated. The first photo is a male, the second a female, and the third is a male underside.
Pyrgus cacaliae_30610W.JPG
Pyrgus cacaliae_41510W.JPG
Pyrgus cacaliae_45327W.JPG
No. 5 Southern Marbled Skipper (C. boeticus)
This is quite rare and localised in France, being principally an Iberian species. It is quite secretive, not venturing outside the little patches of its main hostplant Marrubium vulgare, so it probably remains undiscovered in many of its localities. It is characterized by the hindwing marginal wavy line, although this soon becomes obscured with ageing. The first photo is a male, the second a female, and the third is a male underside.
Carcharodus baeticus_42624W.JPG
Carcharodus baeticus_42681W.JPG
Carcharodus baeticus_42623W.JPG
No. 4 Alpine Grizzled Skipper (P. andromedae)
This is quite high up my list because it is relatively uncommon and flies only, as its name implies, at high altitudes, often in company with cacaliae. The underside is rather similar in markings to cacaliae, but the upperside is characterized by the three discal marks on the forewing, although sometimes the third of these marks is difficult to discern.
Pyrgus andromedae_36166W.JPG
Pyrgus andromedae_36169W.JPG
Quite why it is called Alpine, when most Pyrgus species fly in the Alps, is unclear. But the early names stick. Also, I’ve never quite worked out why some Pyrgus have Grizzled in their names and some don’t (Carline and Olive, for example).

Top three to follow.
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petesmith
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Re: Favourite European Skippers

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Roger Gibbons wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 9:43 am Top three to follow.
I think we can make a good guess at Number 1 Roger, but 2 and 3 are going to be very interesting!
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David M
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Re: Favourite European Skippers

Post by David M »

petesmith wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 10:51 am
Roger Gibbons wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 9:43 am Top three to follow.
I think we can make a good guess at Number 1 Roger, but 2 and 3 are going to be very interesting!
Yes. I'm scratching my head about a couple of these too.
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David M
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Re: Favourite European Skippers

Post by David M »

#4 - Safflower Skipper

Large, sturdy and beautifully marked pyrgus. It's fairly common in southern France too making it easy to familiarise yourself with it.

#3 - Marbled Skipper

A beautiful little hesperid, with almost pure white undersides contrasting with its darker uppers.

Here's an image of both these species puddling side by side:
0safflowermarbled(1).jpg
There's no mistaking carthami's identity when you see the underside:
1pyrguscarthami.uns(1).jpg
Same too with lavatherae:
02Marbleduns(1).jpg
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petesmith
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Re: Favourite European Skippers

Post by petesmith »

A lovely shot of carthami with lavatherae there David! Two beauties side by side.
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Roger Gibbons
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Re: Favourite European Skippers

Post by Roger Gibbons »

Here are my top three Skippers (largely on the grounds of rarity):

No. 3 Large Chequered Skipper (Heteropterus morpheus)
I used to see morpheus fairly regularly in the late 1990s in the Bordeaux region and in the eastern Pyrenees. But it is a question of being in the right place at the right time, and the last time I achieved that was in 2006 in Italy. I have tried to see morpheus on two occasions in the last few years, near Lourdes. On the first occasion I woke up to find heavy mist which did not lift all day, and on the second occasion the site was clearly overgrown and inaccessible. It is still high on my wish list. The underside is unique and its bobbing flight, as others have already noted, suggests that it was designed by Barnes Wallace.
Heteropterus morpheus_02787W.JPG
No. 2 Sage Skipper (Muschampia proto)
Another Iberian species, very localised in southern France. It took me a long time to find it and then I was finding all across the region. I have one spot where it occurs in reasonable numbers (that is around ten, as it not a common species) but they always seem to be nectaring on Scabious which waves around in the wind, not conducive to good photos. The first is a male, the second a female, and then an underside which, as David has noted, is tricky as they don’t often settle with closed wings.
Muschampia proto_44244W.JPG
Muschampia proto_42114W.JPG
Muschampia proto_42025W.JPG
No. 1 Foulquier’s Grizzled Skipper (P. foulquieri)
It was either this or Warren’s Skipper (P. warrenensis) at No. 1, and whilst warrenensis is rather more rare, foulquieri is a large Pyrgus and has big bold markings. I waited a long time to find it, but I now have at least two very reliable locations. In one of the locations, I was usually there too early in July and missed it, but in the last few years have visited that well-known location in mid-July. The first two are males, the first being crisply marked but with a section of wing missing (I can’t match David’s perfect photo), the second a male with a very sandy dusting, the third a female (as in several Pyrgus looking totally different to the males), and the third is an underside just about showing the extended hair tuft at the base of the abdomen.
Pyrgus foulquieri_44701W.JPG
Pyrgus foulquieri_44331W.JPG
Pyrgus foulquieri_44706W.JPG
Pyrgus foulquieri_44691W.JPG
Having just caught up on Skippers, next on to Pierids.
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petesmith
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Re: Favourite European Skippers

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You surprised me there Roger. I would have had money on warrenensis being your number 1, not that Foulquier's isn't a worthy top place!
We await your choice of Pierids with interest...
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Roger Gibbons
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Re: Favourite European Skippers

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Yes, Pete, warrenensis certainly qualifies on the grounds of rarity, but other than that, it isn't particularly unique in its markings. Not that I'll think that as and when I might next see one. Then it will go straight to number one.

My Pierids will be limited to France, so you can probably guess my top three (on the grounds of rarity and the length of time I searched before I found them). My wife has calculated (in broad terms) which species have cost us the most in terms of petrol and hotel costs. Southern Swallowtail and Iolas Blue are near the top of that list, along with my number one Pierid.

Roger
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Matsukaze
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Re: Favourite European Skippers

Post by Matsukaze »

Roger Gibbons wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 3:55 pm ...My wife has calculated (in broad terms) which species have cost us the most in terms of petrol and hotel costs. Southern Swallowtail and Iolas Blue are near the top of that list, along with my number one Pierid...
For me this is oedippus, with dispar a fairly close second. I still haven't seen either...
Medard
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Re: Favourite European Skippers

Post by Medard »

.
.My wife has calculated (in broad terms) which species have cost us the most in terms of petrol and hotel costs. Southern Swallowtail and Iolas Blue are near the top of that list, along with my number one Pierid..
When does a passion become an obsession ? I have often asked myself that question, I do hope my wife does follow your wife’s example Roger, I dread to think of the mileage I have traveled over the length and breath of France pursuing the rarities of France, but no matter, we have both enjoyed the places we have visited, as I am sure you have, we have had interesting experiences, sometimes frustrations,  generally I have been lucky in my search’s, this year I had hoped to find Iolas Blue and Varia but thats not to be
The cost ? don’t ask, Shrouds have no pockets.
PS However, the one trip that made me wince was the motorway fees to visit the Asian fritillary, Ouch.was it worth it, you bet.
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petesmith
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Re: Favourite European Skippers

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Medard wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 7:29 am the one trip that made me wince was the motorway fees to visit the Asian fritillary, Ouch.was it worth it, you bet.
Same here Jim. We travelled from Bardonecchia to Modane through the Frejus tunnel to get to see Asian Fritillary. A very expensive toll, and I made the mistake of just buying a single ticket on the way, not realising that for just a few more Euros I could have got a return ticket! I think it cost us about 90 Euros for the two-way journey.

But as you say, well worth it to see Asian Frit, and we also got Cranberry Blue at the same time!

(Incidentally - my "most expensive" butterfly was Zeller's Skipper)
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David M
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Re: Favourite European Skippers

Post by David M »

Medard wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 7:29 am...The cost ? don’t ask, Shrouds have no pockets.
Great attitude, Jim. We're all just lucky to be here. Why squander that luck for the sake of a few Euros?
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David M
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Re: Favourite European Skippers

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petesmith wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 10:28 am..(Incidentally - my "most expensive" butterfly was Zeller's Skipper)
You must enlighten us regarding that, Pete. :)
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David M
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Re: Favourite European Skippers

Post by David M »

It's been interesting to see not only the species which people are selecting as their favourites, but also the rationale behind those choices.

I will attempt to do likewise with my top two:

#2 - Alpine Grizzled Skipper

This is quite an interestingly marked pyrgus on both ups and uns, however it is the care and attention one must devote to finding it and identifying it that gives it kudos in my opinion.

As its name suggests, it is an altitude specialist and butterfly numbers are generally more sparse at 2,000m+ meaning you're never going to have dozens flying around you!

Here's one found at 2,300m:
06Alpineups(1).jpg
....and another sitting out cool and cloudy conditions on a different col at a similar altitude:
1pyrgusandromedae.uns(1).jpg
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David M
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Re: Favourite European Skippers

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#1 - Chequered Skipper

This might seem strange to some, but I still haven't had sufficient 'fill' of this beautiful little hesperid for it to be anything other than #1.

It was the last species I saw in the UK, with me making a trek to Glasdrum in Argyll, Scotland in late May 2014, which was a memorable experience and one I'd recommend others to indulge in.

When abroad, I've still only seen a handful, all of them in the French Pyrenees during late May. The species can be hit and miss here; we don't see it every year, and it carries with it a certain kudos due to its status in Britain, being the only butterfly present in Scotland but not in England/Wales (though the recent introduction in the Rockingham Forest might change that soon).

It's just so different to all the other skippers, and it still gives me a buzz whenever I see it to this day.

Apologies for the poor images but all my good ones from Scotland in 2014 disappeared off this website due to the necessary adjustments for bandwidth maintenance.
2Chq1(1).jpg

2Chq2(1).jpg
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Roger Gibbons
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Re: Favourite European Skippers

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I did a quick summation of the votes cast to date, giving 10 points for No.1 down to 1 point for No.10. Nobody got 0 points - it's not Eurovision. Jim gave six in no order so I gave them 5 points each.

The winner, perhaps surprisingly, was Large Chequered, a species that UKBers not familiar with European species might not have been expecting to top the polls. A little way back (bearing in mind how few votes were cast) was Foulquier's, Alpine, Safflower, Chequered, Yellow-banded, Sage.

Roger
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petesmith
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Re: Favourite European Skippers

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David M wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 6:46 pm #1 - Chequered Skipper

This might seem strange to some, but I still haven't had sufficient 'fill' of this beautiful little hesperid for it to be anything other than #1.
Not strange at all David - it's a gem of a butterfly, and yet another that I left off my list with great regret, but with confidence that someone would include it. I have enjoyed encountering it both in Scotland and in the east of France. A fine choice!
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Re: Favourite European Skippers

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Roger Gibbons wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 9:31 am I did a quick summation of the votes cast to date, giving 10 points for No.1 down to 1 point for No.10. Nobody got 0 points - it's not Eurovision. Jim gave six in no order so I gave them 5 points each.

The winner, perhaps surprisingly, was Large Chequered, a species that UKBers not familiar with European species might not have been expecting to top the polls. A little way back (bearing in mind how few votes were cast) was Foulquier's, Alpine, Safflower, Chequered, Yellow-banded, Sage.

Roger
Very interesting Roger. Of course personally I had no doubt that morpheus would be a cumulative winner! :D

It would be interesting to do the same with the Fritillaries, and in time with the Pierids also.
Of course, you know what's coming next - Satyrids - and I think that is really going to give me a headache choosing a top ten!!!
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David M
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Re: Favourite European Skippers

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petesmith wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 9:54 am...Of course, you know what's coming next - Satyrids - and I think that is really going to give me a headache choosing a top ten!!!
Indeed. I'm struggling just with the Heaths to be honest.
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Matsukaze
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Re: Favourite European Skippers

Post by Matsukaze »

David M wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 11:12 am
petesmith wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 9:54 am...Of course, you know what's coming next - Satyrids - and I think that is really going to give me a headache choosing a top ten!!!
Indeed. I'm struggling just with the Heaths to be honest.
For me, it took five minutes to come up with a top 10; there are just the right number of species that really stand out for me. I've been trying, on and off, since the beginning of the month, but still haven't managed to come up with one that I'm happy with for the blues or fritillaries.

Why do people choose the species they do? Some of mine are species I especially enjoy watching, wherever I see them; others with a particular individual that captured my imagination, others I associate with a place that I particularly enjoy being. Some are just downright rare and the pleasure is in the trouble I took to seek them out. The best of all combine all four aspects.
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