Moths help needed

[JIMCOBB49]

Another couple of moths I can't identify.Ican't find them in my moth book-this moth ID is sure difficult.Can anyone help? Jim Cobb

[bugboy]

Any chance of a location and date on these, might help to pin down the species

[JIMCOBB49]

2nd one was taken 14 July in Angus,Scotland and the 1st also in Angus,probablyAugust-September Jim

[bugboy]

My best educated guess for the first one (emphasis on the guess) is that it belongs to the subfamily Hadeninae. I can't pin down anything in my guides that fits with the second one, possibly because its rather worn. I'd say it was another Noctuid and judging by how big the Yarrow flowers look in the picture, it looks rather small and the subfamily Amphipyrinae does contain several small Noctuids.

I'm sure someone with more experience and better field knowledge will be able to get them down to genus at least though

[Matsukaze]

1 - Common Rustic agg.
2 - Middle-barred Minor

[JIMCOBB49]

Thanks very much to you both Jim