Frits

[Paul]

Any Provencals here??




These are the same individual

[Padfield]

Very interesting pictures, Paul!!

The second picture, of the mating pair, seems to be parthenoides to me. All the classic signs are there - the broken pd line, the oblique mark in s1. The male underneath looks darkly marked but this is a very variable species and there are darker forms in the Pyrenees.

The first picture looks like a male parthenoides, though I've never seen such a completely marked one. The mark in s1 is distinctly oblique and the hindwing shows much open space. My knee jerk reaction was parthenoides and although details worry me that remains my theory.

As for the last one (I presume ups and uns of the same butterfly), what a weird insect!! I find it impossible to place confidently. I've never seen a female parthenoides looking at all like that. My experience of deione outside Switzerland (where we have a rather particular form, berisalii) is quite limited but she looks all wrong for that to me. This is a female deione from the central Pyrenees:



Note the pale, straw-coloured pd band. In deione the uns markings are typically creamy rather than white, too.

I am really uncertain what this is - and look forward to someone else's opinion! The two most likely possibilities seem to me to be athalia or a variant of diamina. Remember that in the Pyrenees diamina is quite different from the Alpine forms. Although this doesn't look like vernetensis it may be some other variant.

I concede defeat on that one! It is nearly midnight here, though, so perhaps I should take another look in the morning!

Guy

EDIT - comparing your pictures 2 and 3 I can't rule out a rather dark female parthenoides either. Mmm...

[Paul]

Thanks.. Yep, top x2 Meadow, look forward to you later considerations. While were at it.... ?False Heath or Meadow

[Padfield]

I'd go for parthenoides for that last one too. What a dark, well-marked bunch of meadow frits there are in the Eastern Pyrenees!!

Guy

EDIT: No, I've completely revised my opinion on that last one you posted. I go for celadussa. The question 'meadow or false heath?' twisted my perception of it but looking fresh at it I definitely see heath frit there!! Sorry.

[Roger Gibbons]

Provencal Fritillary (mellicta dejone) is one of those butterflies, I find, that when you’ve seen one for sure, you’re in no doubt, and Heath Fritillary (mellicta athalia) is just so variable it can lead to many false alarms. In the female, the contrast between the bands, as Guy says, is very apparent. It is less apparent in the male which tends to have a rather orange feel to it. The underside of dejone has a very red feel compared to other mellicta. Here’s a photo (10440) of both sexes together, female on the left, and another (10439) of a female.

mellicta dejone_10440.JPG (218.3 KiB) Viewed 1114 times

mellicta dejone_10439.JPG (93.98 KiB) Viewed 1114 times

Re photo 3/4, the underside fw marginal mark in s2 looks quite heavy and I have rather considered this to be indicative of athalia as opposed to parthenoides. The hw basal markings look more athalia than parthenoides to me, as well. Against that, the pose, showing a distinct gap between the wings had always seemed more a feature of parthenoides, but the wing shape suggest athalia. I find if I back both horses in a two horse race, I usually get a winner .

[Paul]

Sorry.. I've another one I think could be Provencal, or is it Knapweed?? ..... sorry no underside..

[Roger Gibbons]

As it's almost identical to the photo above, I'd go for Provencal!

The fw marginal lunule in s3 is larger than it's neighbours, but in Knapweed it is distinctly larger than the others. This isn't, so I'm fairly sure it's not Knapweed. There are other indicators such as the colour variation between bands, more distinctive in the female. This s3 lunule is fortunate as Knapweed is a hugely variable butterfly across it's range, both in terms of colouring and weight of the black markings. This is a quick assessment, so maybe get a second opinion especially if this is your Provencal life-tick.

Roger

[Padfield]

In addition, knapweed has a concave outer margin in the lower half of the forewing, whereas Paul's shows it convex everywhere:



This one is from the Val. The lunule stands out like a torpedo.

Here is another, from this year:



Female Provençal has often been described as resembling knapweed in general colouration, and yours does. But unless they have totally different knapweed frits where you were, Paul (do you have knapweed frits to compare this with?) I would agree with Roger: Provençal!!

Guy

[Paul]

Yipeeeeeeeeeeeee!

[Simon C]

What a stunner. Absolutely gorgeous. Are they common?

Simon

[Paul]

That's a Knapweed Fritillary, and I have seen them each time I've visited the Mid-South of France over the past few years. Not in enormous numbers, but don't seem rare.
Reading again, Guy asked for an example of the phoebes I'd seen... this was the only decent shot I had...

[Padfield]

You're right, Simon, knapweed fritillary ssp.occitanica can be a very striking butterfly! Other subspecies and forms lack the brilliance and contrast - and the species is very variable, hence my question about what they looked like where Paul shot his Provençal frit. As to abundance, they are certainly very common in the Val d'Aran, my regular pilgrimage destination in the Spanish Pyrenees. Rather different (less contrasting) individuals fly in Switzerland along the Rhône Valley, also reasonably commonly. This is a heat-loving butterfly that I associate with dry, dusty paths and thistles and, of course, knapweed. I have seen it at middle/high altitudes as well as in the valley, but only where the environment - rocks, aspect &c. - make it suitably hot and dry.

The underside is pretty good, too! This is a Swiss specimen:



Guy