Skippers for ID, please

[Trik]

Sorry about this, but I always have difficulty with this type of Skipper, especially if I can't get an underside shot - the differences in the identifying markings are often so subtle.

These are two different butterflies, photographed on 26 September in Catalonia, either in the Pre Pyrenees or Pyrenees. Any help will be much appreciated.

Many thanks
Trik

[David M]

Hard to be sure without an underside, but based on the upperwings I'd say most likely is armoricanus.

[Trik]

Thanks, David. I did guess at Oberthur's but isn't end-September a bit late for them?

Trik

[David M]

Thanks, David. I did guess at Oberthur's but isn't end-September a bit late for them?

Flight times vary enormously depending on the latitude and altitude, Trik. This is why Orange Tips can be on the wing in late July in many places in Europe. Abnormally hot conditions may also bring about additional broods.

[Trik]

We were told that the weather was unseasonably hot for late September where we were, so that could explain the lateness of this skipper. Thank you, David.

Trik

[Padfield]

I agree they both look most like armoricanus, which regularly flies into early September in Switzerland. The only real alternative is onopordi, which is present in Cataluña and flies into October. The uppersides of this may be almost as well marked and the general appearance is good. This is a Swiss onopordi:



Without a glimpse of an underside I'm not sure I could be certain either way.

Guy