Binoculars for butterflies

[bugmadmark]

Hi

Can anyone offer me advice on which the best type of binocuar is for insect identification? I'm keen to get something smallish in size and that will be able to focus close up to insects sufficiently to allow me to ID them. e.g. hairstreaks etc that tend to settle 2-3 metres of ground on tree brances, etc. I see canon have some that have built in image stabilisation - maybe these are oK - especially given speed that insects move at! Thanks for your opinions!

[roundwood123]

I did lots of research for the best Bins to buy for both Birds and Bugs and ended up with a pair from Optricron, i would suggest you try before you buy and look for some with a close focus, mine go down to around 5 feet, i reckon its best to spend as much as you can afford on your binoculars but £300 will get an excellent pair. Steve.
PS, i tried those Canon Bins a couple of years ago,[ they may have improved since then] i was not impressed.

[m_galathea]

Steve's advice to try before you buy is wise. I'd recommend looking at second hand pairs, you can often pick up decent ones in auction.

I use a pair of 8x30 Adlers for butterflies, these are small enough to hang around your neck above a camera. For general use I use a pair of Swift Audubon MkIIs (8.5x44). These are too big IMO to have around your neck with a camera too though! There's probably lots of better ones that are made today, but the quality of the Swifts is enough for me_

AH

[Rogerdodge]

Steer well clear of "High Power" binoculars you may see advertised, and, even worse, any that zoom.
Image Stabilisation is not good in bins, and it makes tham really heavy. Canon and Nikon make really poor binoculars (IMHO) which is surprising when you see the quality of their camera lenses.
You should look for an 8x32 or thereabouts.
The 8 is the magnification of the image (10 is at the limit of what you can comfortably hand-hold) and generally the higher the magnification, the less close it will focus, and the less bright the image.
The 32 is the size of the big front lens - thus the higher the number the brighter the image (but the heavier the binocular).
Go for a 'name' Leica, Zeiss, Optolyth, Opticron, Swarovski etc.
As in all things you get what you pay for, and anything less than £300 or £400 will just leave you disapointed.
Power is not everything. If you looked at a treetopped Purple Hairstreak through a pair of £20 20x50s from the back pages of a Sunday newspaper (See for miles!!!) and then through my £1,000 Leica 8x32s, the difference will be astonishing.
Try out as many ones as you can, friends, acquaintances, and in shops - you should be able to focus on your toes, but don't forget to look at distant stuff as well!
Don't be afraid of buying on the web, or even E-Bay. I have bought two pairs of "as new" Leica binocuars on E-Bay (10x50 and 8x32) and got real bargains.
Good luck.
HTH
Roger

[Trev Sawyer]

Hi Mark,
We had a similar thread last year (I think) and I bought a pair of Pentax Papilio 8.5 x 21 binoculars on the strength of that. They are very light, focus right down to 0.5m(!) and they are absolutely brilliant for insects. As the name suggests, they were designed for insect work. Getting that close may sound a bit OTT, but it is well worth it and you will marvel at every scale. I couldn't be happier with them. I got mine new for under £100 and they can still be found for a similar price I think. They have transformed my viewing of butterflies and dragonflies. A high proportion of those people I've allowed to try them have bought their own. Every scale can be seen close up and they are good for distance work too.
Definitely add these to your list of "to try before you buy's"

Trev

[Annie]

The Pentax Papilio came highly recommended to me by a butterfly watcher last week - I've been looking around the internet and you can get them for as little as £85

[eccles]

I have a pair of Zeiss Deltrintem 8x30. They're from the ex-GDR Jena factory and were an absolute steal when purchased some 20 years ago. They're multicoated and will focus down to around 6 feet, or a little closer for me as I'm short sighted. I forget exactly how much they were but they were definitely less than £50 with leather case, and one to look out for on the s/h market.

[Trev Sawyer]

Hey Annie,
As they say in the stockmarket... Buy, buy buy! That's a great price and they are worth every penny.

Trev

[eccles]

Papilio 8.5x21 at Microglobe are £72. I have no idea if the dealer is any good.

[bugmadmark]

Thanks for all your advice. I was thinking id have to spend a few hundred pounds - but the dilemma is that I own a Canon EOS 400D with a 28-135mm lens. I need to invest in a good macro lens for it so I can start taking reasonable pics and a decent macro flash unit too. If I blow the money on the bins then the photography goes out the window. However, if these Pentax Papilio ones are good as you say -and considering the price Ive got little to lose. Ill see if i can find a highstreet shop selling them and give them a go. Thanks all!

Oh - also, just having looked at Papilio ranges - there seems to be a 6.5x21 and an 8.5x21. I assumed that the letter would be better for insect photography due to the slightly bigger magnification, however a couple of reviews said that the 6.5 had a wider field of view - how would this benefit me for say looking at dragonflies or butterflies? Its the small butterflies such as the hairstreaks in the low branches of trees I want to be able to identify.

Thanks

Mark

[roundwood123]

Hi Mark, as said in the previous posts "try before you buy" its the best way to buy new Bins. Steve.

[PaulJBN]

No need to spend more than £50

I use these and think they are great - they focus down to about 5-6 ft and give a nice clear image.

Also, you can pick'em up for less than £20. Praktica CN10X21.

http://www.buzzoptics.com/acatalog/Prak ... ulars.html

Save the money for the MACRO lens.

[bugmadmark]

Just an endnote to say I opted for the Pentax Papilio 8.5x21. I ordered from Amazon and have had them over a week. With the recent poor weather there's not been much to look at - but I have tried them out and love them. I'd liked to have had a lens cap for front lens - there is however one for the eyepieces. It does come with softcase though - oh and should you want it - the strap is quick release - nifty idea!

Mark

[SpitfireTriple]

I first heard about the Pentax Papilio on another forum, birdforum.net. The second post on that link is particularly informative. This article on betterviewdesired is also good, as is this from birdwatching.com. Then I read this thread. I searched the net for the best price. But at £100 it was a bit pricey for me as a beginner's binocular (I discount the cheap and nasty 10x25s I bought from Ebay a month ago for £4!). So last week I ordered this 7x32 monocular:
£31.49 and 12 inch close focus were what attracted me. It hasn't arrived yet but...

Yesterday I was in Bath, and went into Walters of Bath in the Podium near Waitrose. On display was a brand new pair of Pentax Papilio 6.5s for... £49.

I had to have them. Even better, my missus, Sue, was with me and bought them for me as an early Christmas present.

I can't believe how good they are. Thanks for all the recommendations everyone!

[SpitfireTriple]

The monocular has arrived, it's not quite as good as the Pentax Papilios, despite having a 32mm objective lens compared to the (twin) 21mm OLs of the Papilio. But I'll keep it, it's a handier size for stuffing into pockets.

Continuing my binocular binge, I see these waterproof (nitrogen-purged) 10x42 "roofs" are back in stock at 7dayshop. £19.99!
Okay, they don't have the close focus to make them suitable for butterfly viewing, but look to be exceptional value for general use binoculars. I'll do a little review if I get them.

[SpitfireTriple]

Well, after re-reading the reviews on Birdforum.net, I got a pair of the £19.99 10x42 7dayshop binoculars (picture above). The build quality looks and feels surprisingly good. The optics do not appear to be coated however: look at them from the wrong end and you can see a clear reflection of your face, not just from the objective lens but also from something inside - the prism? So not quite as much light will reach your eyes as with a more expensive binocular with fully coated optics.

And despite their 42mm objective lens being twice the size (=4x the light-gathering ability), they are not quite as bright as the 6.5x21 Pentax Papilios. Nor do they have the same contrast, sharpness and depth of field. But they're not far off. I wouldn't have them as my main binoculars, I'm too interested in insects for that, so I need the ultra-close-focus of the Papilios. But as a rugged spare pair, to be kept by the back door or in the boot of the car (or to be lent or given to a nephew who might not look after them as well as you would yourself), they are fantastic value for money.

PS Continuing my binocular binge, I also got a pair of 10x25s from 7dayshop.You're never going to get a fabulous, bright, wide image from 10x25s. But these were £5.49 inc p&p and noticeably better than the 10x25s I bought from Ebay a month or so ago. I suspect they come from different Chinese factories: Not only are the bodies different but the optics are too; the 7dayshop ones quote a Field of View of 101m, the Ebay ones 96m.

[Zonda]

Right,,,i've got £100 for bins, not spending a penny more. Which 8X32 or thereabouts can i get. Must be bright, brill, and portable. Hmm! Which highstreet shops stock the Pentax Papilio 8.5X21?

[Neil Hulme]

Hi Zonda,
Can't recommend the Pentax Papilio 6.5 x 21 too highly for butterflies. They are brilliant for the money. You will get them for less than £100 from many internet companies. Probably a few quid more than your £100 budget on the high street. I personally wouldn't consider anything else in this price range.
Neil

[Zonda]

Thanks Kipper, just bought a pair of 'said' on Amazon. Over-priced, but free delivery. £107. I could have ordered them locally from a shop down at Weymouth, for £99, but that would have been more petrol, and another trip. So being the impatient sort, i came home and paid a little over the odds. I saw them on one website for £88, but the p&p was silly. Now,,, anyone know for any butterflies????

[SpitfireTriple]

Let us know what you think of them. I suspect you will be really pleased with your new window into the insect world.