Sexing a larva
- Pete Eeles
- Administrator & Stock Contributor
- Posts: 6834
- Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:10 pm
- Location: Thatcham, Berkshire
- Contact:
Sexing a larva
Hi all,
A known phenomenon with Purple Emperor larvae is that their sex can be determined when in the final instar based on the presence (or absence) of a pair of pale patches on the eighth segment that are the developing testes, indicating a male larva. I think I've just found a photo showing this in the Small White also. Does anyone else have anything similar? Thanks!
Cheers,
- Pete
A known phenomenon with Purple Emperor larvae is that their sex can be determined when in the final instar based on the presence (or absence) of a pair of pale patches on the eighth segment that are the developing testes, indicating a male larva. I think I've just found a photo showing this in the Small White also. Does anyone else have anything similar? Thanks!
Cheers,
- Pete
Life Cycles of British & Irish Butterflies: http://www.butterflylifecycles.com
British & Irish Butterflies Rarities: http://www.butterflyrarities.com
British & Irish Butterflies Rarities: http://www.butterflyrarities.com
- Pete Eeles
- Administrator & Stock Contributor
- Posts: 6834
- Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:10 pm
- Location: Thatcham, Berkshire
- Contact:
Re: Sexing a larva
Green-veined White too!
Cheers,
- Pete
Cheers,
- Pete
Life Cycles of British & Irish Butterflies: http://www.butterflylifecycles.com
British & Irish Butterflies Rarities: http://www.butterflyrarities.com
British & Irish Butterflies Rarities: http://www.butterflyrarities.com
- Vince Massimo
- Administrator & Stock Contributor
- Posts: 1859
- Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:36 pm
- Location: Crawley, Sussex
Re: Sexing a larva
Hi Pete,
I have seen this as well in both Small White and Green-veined White, but not just in their final instars. I have noted patches of colour (usually purple) showing up on the 8th segment (abdominal segment A5) of some larvae in their 4th instar.
Small White
Male larvae
Female larva for comparison Green-veined White
Male larvae
I have also had a quick scan of other species (concentrating on those that have green larvae) and Ben Smart's Small Skipper looked promising although the pale marks appear to be in the 9th segment (A6) rather than the 8th.
Vince
I have seen this as well in both Small White and Green-veined White, but not just in their final instars. I have noted patches of colour (usually purple) showing up on the 8th segment (abdominal segment A5) of some larvae in their 4th instar.
Small White
Male larvae
Female larva for comparison Green-veined White
Male larvae
I have also had a quick scan of other species (concentrating on those that have green larvae) and Ben Smart's Small Skipper looked promising although the pale marks appear to be in the 9th segment (A6) rather than the 8th.
Vince
-
- Posts: 791
- Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:34 am
Re: Sexing a larva
Wall Brown? There definitely appears to be a paler mark in the same area as the other larvae shown.
James
James
- Pete Eeles
- Administrator & Stock Contributor
- Posts: 6834
- Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:10 pm
- Location: Thatcham, Berkshire
- Contact:
Re: Sexing a larva
Thanks Vince and James!
Some interested thoughts from Mark Youles here: http://apaturairis.blogspot.com/2014/02 ... exing.html
Cheers,
- Pete
Some interested thoughts from Mark Youles here: http://apaturairis.blogspot.com/2014/02 ... exing.html
Cheers,
- Pete
Life Cycles of British & Irish Butterflies: http://www.butterflylifecycles.com
British & Irish Butterflies Rarities: http://www.butterflyrarities.com
British & Irish Butterflies Rarities: http://www.butterflyrarities.com
- Pete Eeles
- Administrator & Stock Contributor
- Posts: 6834
- Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:10 pm
- Location: Thatcham, Berkshire
- Contact:
Re: Sexing a larva
Going through my archive, I think that this final instar Silver-spotted Skipper may also show its developing testes.
Cheers,
- Pete
Cheers,
- Pete
Life Cycles of British & Irish Butterflies: http://www.butterflylifecycles.com
British & Irish Butterflies Rarities: http://www.butterflyrarities.com
British & Irish Butterflies Rarities: http://www.butterflyrarities.com
Re: Sexing a larva
is this just for butterflies, or do moths eg Hawk Moth also show this. Although on the hairy larvae it would be very difficult to see. Im not sure if Glanville larvae do either will look later in the season.
- Pete Eeles
- Administrator & Stock Contributor
- Posts: 6834
- Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:10 pm
- Location: Thatcham, Berkshire
- Contact:
Re: Sexing a larva
The phenomenon seems most prevalent in species whose final instar larvae have few (or no) hairs and a pale ground colour, so I suspect it's seen in some moth larvae too, but I don't think you'd see it in a Glanville Fritillary larva for these reasons.MrSp0ck wrote:is this just for butterflies, or do moths eg Hawk Moth also show this. Although on the hairy larvae it would be very difficult to see. Im not sure if Glanville larvae do either will look later in the season.
Cheers,
- Pete
Life Cycles of British & Irish Butterflies: http://www.butterflylifecycles.com
British & Irish Butterflies Rarities: http://www.butterflyrarities.com
British & Irish Butterflies Rarities: http://www.butterflyrarities.com
- Pete Eeles
- Administrator & Stock Contributor
- Posts: 6834
- Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:10 pm
- Location: Thatcham, Berkshire
- Contact:
Re: Sexing a larva
I'm currently working on the Large Skipper species description and came across this 2nd instar larva - the first time I've seen anything that might hint at testes in anything other than a final instar larva!
Definitely a topic to be studied in more detail at some point!
Cheers,
- Pete
[Edit] Here's a 4th instar, also with the pale markings.
Definitely a topic to be studied in more detail at some point!
Cheers,
- Pete
[Edit] Here's a 4th instar, also with the pale markings.
Life Cycles of British & Irish Butterflies: http://www.butterflylifecycles.com
British & Irish Butterflies Rarities: http://www.butterflyrarities.com
British & Irish Butterflies Rarities: http://www.butterflyrarities.com
Re: Sexing a larva
Lulworth Skipper
app.php/gallery/image/24630
Orange=tip
app.php/gallery/image/8296
app.php/gallery/image/3861
app.php/gallery/image/24630
Orange=tip
app.php/gallery/image/8296
app.php/gallery/image/3861
Some addictions are good for the soul!
Re: Sexing a larva
We were working on the Emperor Moth larvae, and think the spotting in the last instar may be different sexes too, the pink and the yellow in the black bands, when we do the species again, the larvae will be sorted so adults emerge in different cages, to see if males and females are all in the same cages.
Are the marks on the same segments on the male pupae as the last intar larvae ? We have all been straining our eyes looking at moth pupae all these years looking for the 2 bumps/marks.
Are the marks on the same segments on the male pupae as the last intar larvae ? We have all been straining our eyes looking at moth pupae all these years looking for the 2 bumps/marks.
- Pete Eeles
- Administrator & Stock Contributor
- Posts: 6834
- Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:10 pm
- Location: Thatcham, Berkshire
- Contact:
Re: Sexing a larva
I don't think so - the testes always 'show' on the 8th segment, whereas the diagnostics for sexing of pupae is based on the position of the genitalia at the end of the abdomen (see http://www.ukleps.org/sexingpupae.html).MrSp0ck wrote:Are the marks on the same segments on the male pupae as the last intar larvae ?
Cheers,
- Pete
Life Cycles of British & Irish Butterflies: http://www.butterflylifecycles.com
British & Irish Butterflies Rarities: http://www.butterflyrarities.com
British & Irish Butterflies Rarities: http://www.butterflyrarities.com
- Pete Eeles
- Administrator & Stock Contributor
- Posts: 6834
- Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:10 pm
- Location: Thatcham, Berkshire
- Contact:
Re: Sexing a larva
And another example - Wood White, 4th instar!
Cheers,
- Pete
Cheers,
- Pete
Life Cycles of British & Irish Butterflies: http://www.butterflylifecycles.com
British & Irish Butterflies Rarities: http://www.butterflyrarities.com
British & Irish Butterflies Rarities: http://www.butterflyrarities.com
Re: Sexing a larva
Fascinating stuff. I trust that this information will be included in your forthcoming work, Pete?
- Pete Eeles
- Administrator & Stock Contributor
- Posts: 6834
- Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:10 pm
- Location: Thatcham, Berkshire
- Contact:
Re: Sexing a larva
Thanks David. It does get a mention in the Purple Emperor description, but will probably become an article post-book!David M wrote:Fascinating stuff. I trust that this information will be included in your forthcoming work, Pete?
Cheers,
- Pete
Life Cycles of British & Irish Butterflies: http://www.butterflylifecycles.com
British & Irish Butterflies Rarities: http://www.butterflyrarities.com
British & Irish Butterflies Rarities: http://www.butterflyrarities.com
Re: Sexing a larva
Thanks for that, Pete. Looks like this publication will help stave off the depression next winter.