May 2008 Votes

This is a forum for, primarily, monthly (or so!) photographic competitions that complement the annual competition.

Whose images would you like to vote for?

Poll ended at Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:20 pm

Pete Eeles
8
9%
Denise
2
2%
Martin
0
No votes
eccles
1
1%
NickB
0
No votes
Rogerdodge
4
4%
Charles Nicol
0
No votes
padfield
0
No votes
Ian Pratt
2
2%
Chris
1
1%
Trev Sawyer
2
2%
Dave McCormick
1
1%
George
1
1%
Paul Kipling
3
3%
FlyByWire
0
No votes
Dave
1
1%
Gruditch
11
12%
IAC
0
No votes
Gwenhwyfar
7
7%
Andrew Mc
2
2%
FISHiEE
6
6%
twitcher
0
No votes
jackharr
9
10%
roundwood123
1
1%
LCPete
2
2%
Markulous
11
12%
Sussex Kipper
0
No votes
Darrel
0
No votes
JKT
1
1%
steveh
5
5%
Bill S
0
No votes
Paul Crook
1
1%
Roger Gibbons
5
5%
Simon C
5
5%
Bryan H
2
2%
 
Total votes: 94

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Gruditch
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Re: May 2008 Votes

Post by Gruditch »

I'm pretty sure that 3 or 4 of the 13 comps, have been won by non DSLRs. :shock:
Just owning a DSLR, does not mean your going to take good pictures.

I don't think it is acceptable to post what he did, when he did, effectively ruining the May comp, and offending me, and others in the proses. Jack I don't think we should be making excuses for him, or changing things to suit him.
I think this is as gooder time as any to use the Mr Green. :mrgreen:



Gruditch
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Jack Harrison
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Re: May 2008 Votes

Post by Jack Harrison »

After all, your entry, taken with non-DSLR (Canon S3), is presently lying equal 2nd.
That's only because I bribed some mates to vote for me. Now I need to find a few more :D

See you Saturday. Will a fiver be enough?

Jack
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NickB
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Re: May 2008 Votes

Post by NickB »

jackharr wrote:
After all, your entry, taken with non-DSLR (Canon S3), is presently lying equal 2nd.
That's only because I bribed some mates to vote for me. Now I need to find a few more :D

See you Saturday. Will a fiver be enough?

Jack
Cripes -- he only gave me a £1!
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Hamearis
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Re: May 2008 Votes

Post by Hamearis »

Mr FlyByWire.
The reason the voting is predictable is cos the same 7 or 8 people take the best pickies every month. The reason you dont get many votes is nothing to do with your camera but poor composition and technique. Point & Shoot cameras have done good and won competitions.
Tell us which of the pickies in this months comp that got a vote are NOT better than your pickie? Yours is alright but is not a competition quality pickie. Youve wiped it from the list now so we cant do a comparison now. I dont enter comps cos Im rubish!
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Padfield
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Re: May 2008 Votes

Post by Padfield »

On the less charged topic ( :D ) of seeing the whole picture, I was being stupid. I always click on a picture to 'maximise' it if it shows scroll bars, because it seems impossible to judge a picture without seeing the whole thing at once. 'Maximised' pictures that are too wide get clipped but the whole picture is there if you are prepared to scroll.

I typically post pictures at 800 pixels across (using the image link to my own server, not the upload) and they seem to fit nicely across the screen on my computer. Perhaps some such limit should be suggested so we can view images without either scrolling or clipping.

On the more charged topic, I've generally found my own pictures to be consistently judged. I've been on the podium twice (using a compact), and clocked up zero a couple of times too, and in all cases I can see why. I don't necessarily agree with the criteria others use to judge photos - I like the background to set the insect in a context and tell an interesting story - but it does seem to me to be the photo rather than the photographer that people are judging. The wining photos are always excellent in certain respects and I can see why they win.

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Annie
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Re: May 2008 Votes

Post by Annie »

I have voted for the ones I like best, I don't know anything about photography (I don't even own a camera) and I don't know in person anyone who posts here. The photos I voted for are the ones that I would like to have on my wall.
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Re: May 2008 Votes

Post by Bryan H »

Pete Eeles wrote:Hmmm. I can't see it. Some photos have scroll bars, but that's it.

Could someone please email me a screenshot and I'll look into it? Thanks. pete@ukbutterflies.co.uk

Or post it here so that we can agree that this is the same problem!

Cheers,

- Pete
It's okay, Pete.

I've selected a higher screen resolution and I can see the whole images now. Strangely enough, the screen resolution was set at the same level on both my home and work computer, but the problem only affected the one. There is, no doubt, a rational explanation for this.

Bryan
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Re: May 2008 Votes

Post by FISHiEE »

The current setup is fine IMO. I'm only fairly new but when I vote I look at the pics to see which I like the best, then scroll back through to see who the photographers are to vote for them. The results have looked pretty accurate to what IMO are the best. Certainly I see no evidence of duff photos getting high votes etc every time.

It's only for fun anyway.

As for DSLR v non-DSLR unfortunately a modern DSLR in the right hands is gonna kill most modern compacts on Image Quality straight away. I vote on both that and composition, though generally the Image quality (Noise, focus etc.) is my first deciding factor, then the best composition wins it for me if quality is close.

A modern super high MP compact is gonna jump out with high noise straight away for me and then unfortunately it's going to be low down the list in my voting as high noise is poor image quality to me.

I don't think many actually post their camera specs to go with the shots so I'm not sure how people think the DSLR guys are voting because the photographer used a DSLR. Or perhaps everyone knows everyone else and their gear better than I do lol
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eccles
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Re: May 2008 Votes

Post by eccles »

I used to have a Canon S3 compact, and did quite well in the themed competitions over the winter months using pictures shot from it. Then after submitting photos from my DSLR my ratings went down a bit.
This to me illustrates two things:
One, you need to know your camera in order to make best use of it.
Two, technical competence, i.e. sharpness, rule of thirds etc, is still not enough if the picture isn't pleasing.

Having said that, this IS a butterfly forum with members who are butterfly enthusiasts, and a rare or difficult to shoot butterfly will inevitably do better than a common, easy to shoot one. And look at the June entries so far. I thought I stood a chance of winning, but the standard of posts after mine is jaw dropping. I'll have trouble sorting out just three when voting.
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FISHiEE
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Re: May 2008 Votes

Post by FISHiEE »

A poor photo of a rare species should never win over a great one of something common IMO. We are meant to be judging the image not the subject. Or at least that's the way I'm voting...

The standard here is really very high and seems to be getting better every month. Whereas perhaps 2-3 really stood out last month, there's 6-8 this month already that I'd have voted on last month!

Lots of factors go into a quality shot. Sharpness, composition, shallow depth of field with a clean background is equally important, the orientation of the subject, how the colours contrast between butterfly and it's surroundings, the lighting. Looks like this month the voters are gonna have to be real picky to choose their favourites :)
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Markulous
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Re: May 2008 Votes

Post by Markulous »

FISHiEE wrote:Lots of factors go into a quality shot. Sharpness, composition, shallow depth of field with a clean background is equally important, the orientation of the subject, how the colours contrast between butterfly and it's surroundings, the lighting. Looks like this month the voters are gonna have to be real picky to choose their favourites :)
Whilst I'd agree, in principle, with all of the above I must admit that I can suffer from Good Shot Fatigue and find myself preferring composition and lighting over good DOF/clean BG, context over perfect sharpness, interesting subject over perfect quality.
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Re: May 2008 Votes

Post by FISHiEE »

To some extent yes composition can win over sharpness, but a great composition badly out of focus doesn't cut it with me. A really good composition that is not quite all in focus can be great also. Equally a stunning to look at image that is a little bit soft all over can be a winner for me. Sometimes the artistic shot that is a bit soft all over can be a winner. I haven't personally seen many like that in these competitions yet. The majority are pure natural history shots which is what I take myself. I can't do artistic ;)
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Martin
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Re: May 2008 Votes

Post by Martin »

Let's face it, the standard of photography is so high here we'll never have to choose between sharpness or composition...there will allways be more that 3 image with both.
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Dave McCormick
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Re: May 2008 Votes

Post by Dave McCormick »

Your right there Martin, people are getting better at taking better quality photos. From learning and seeing pics that others take, you learn to do things differently or take more intresting shots etc...

I don't remember who I voted for this month, but good pics out there.
Cheers all,
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Re: May 2008 Votes

Post by Shirley Roulston »

Just viewed the competition entries for the first time, it seems that some of them are cropped too much. I like the ones that are taken a little further back with a bit of flower or leaf. In a competition the picture should be pleasing to look at, and they are all very nice photos. I don't think an expensive camera is needed just lots of greenery and good light.
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Re: May 2008 Votes

Post by Jack Harrison »

Shirley commented:
Just viewed the competition entries for the first time, it seems that some of them are cropped too much. I like the ones that are taken a little further back with a bit of flower or leaf
Is this the sort of thing you mean Shirley?

Jack
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Rogerdodge
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Re: May 2008 Votes (LONG)

Post by Rogerdodge »

Well, there we go.
Another competition over, and some fabulous images. Gruditch and Markulous deserve big pats on the back, and I must thank those kind souls that voted for me, and put me in the top third of the entries.
I am pretty sure that this may make me unpopular with a few people, but I wrote little crits on each entry as they came in. I think I have kept up with all the entry changes, but I apologise if I haven’t.

Some comments may seem a little harsh, but in all cases of negative (but constructive I hope) criticism, I know the photographer can, and has, done better.

Also, the standards in these competitions have become so high lately that even those that don't get many votes would have done really well a few years back.

Peter Eeles - Common Blue
Beautiful photograph, the colours are superb, and the butterfly is immaculate, sharp as a tack, and nicely angled in the frame. From the attractive use of space at the top of the portrait frame, I would guess that you were going for the magazine cover market?

Denise - Small Blue
Lovely shot. The 3/4 view with wing tips and antennae in sharp focus shows really technique. Exposure is spot on. If there is anything to criticise here, perhaps the background is a little too sharp and distracting - but that would be nit-picking. Great effort.

Martin - Duke
Nice composition, but the subject is showing us his backside - not the best view. Using a wider aperture than f10 would have reduced the distraction of the background.

Eccles - Green Hairstreak
Just superb. Really well exposed with difficult back lighting, and the butterfly really sharp and looking into the space on the right of the picture. The beautifully out-of-focus background is lovely, setting the butterfly in almost 3d mode! The bright area that is in front of the wing, and entered by the antennae, ought to be wrong, but isn't, as it just lifts the detail.

NickB - Dingy Skipper
An interesting and eye-catching shot. Very little to criticise here, but I would have preferred to see the subject occupying the top third rather than the bottom third - but that is just personal. Really nice shot.

Charles Nicol - Duke
Amusing 'action' shot. Well composed, and a good 'moment in time'. Could be a little sharper. It needs to be 'shared' but is possibly not a competition entry?

Guy Padfield - Small Heath.
The butterfly is sharp, well exposed, and on an attractive plant. This is one of the few times that I like a large depth of field in a butterfly photograph, as it shows off the habitat (Swiss Alps) really well. If I must be picky, the butterfly would be better away from the centre of the frame, and the chalet would be better not partly obscured by the plant. But a really nice shot.

Ian Pratt - Glanville
Ian - this could have been such a good shot! The butterfly is beautifully exposed despite being backlit, really sharp, and a naturally beautiful specimen. However, the head is hard up against the frame, and there is an empty area behind it, making it badly balanced. Also, the plant it is on looks great, and the colours are a superb contrast to the butterfly, couple that with the really nice bokeh, you should have moved back a bit, and included the flower. Perhaps even portrait format? Technically 10/10, 5/10 for artistic interpretation!? Look at Simon C later for the same subject and pose, but more balanced composition.

Chris - PBF
Exquisite composition - and technically really good. If only the furthest antennae was sharper! - using flash and a tripod as you have, could have allowed F8 or F11 rather than the F4 which you used. Nevertheless, an excellent image. Incidentally, your Orange Tip was just as good - excellent work.

Trev Sawyer - Wood White
A moment in time, really well captured and very attractive. The slight lack of sharpness is really not too bad, and does not distract. However, a slightly wider aperture than 5.2 may have made the background less distracting, as would (I think) a lower viewpoint? I like this photograph very much.

Dave McCormick - Green-veined White
Considering the tricky lighting here, it is really well exposed. A shame we can't see more of the lower butterfly, and perhaps a portrait format would have given a better composition with the subject towards the top of the frame (or bottom if you want to sell as a magazine cover!). You are using Shutter Priority at 1/180, You may do better with Aperture Priority at F8, the sharpest for your 105mm lens.

George - Green Hairstreak
Composition excellent - the grass stalk leads the eye on a nice diagonal to the butterfly, which is a lovely fresh specimen. The exposure is spot on, so difficult with these butterflies. If I am allowed one tiny criticism - I would have used just a teeny tad less sharpening in your editing software. A lovely image anyway.

Paul Kipling - Green Hairstreak
Technique 9/10, artistic interpretation 9/10. A winning image Paul. Perhaps the background is a little 'speckled' and there is a distracting line top right? Just excellent. It passes my "Would I like it hanging on my wall?" test. An excellent example, along with Jack Harrison, of a small sensor camera really delivering the goods in the right hands.

FlyByWire - Marsh Fritillaries
This is a really interesting shot. Marsh Frits sharing a flower, and possibly other interaction. However, the background is distracting, but that can't be avoided with small sensor cameras.
A picture that should certainly be shared on this website, but perhaps not in the photo competition?.

Dave - Small Tortoishell
Dave - I don't want to seem mean, but, whilst this is an interesting shot scientifically, it is not an image for a competition.
The background is distracting, the subjects are both tatty, and the composition is uninspired. Sorry - please don't be upset by this, you can easily do better next month.

Gruditch - Common Blue
Just superb. Blindingly outstanding. The sharpness of the subject, the beautiful out-of-focus background, and the eye-catching grass head make this one of the best shots I have seen for ages. There is a space on my study wall waiting for it.
And it really hurts having to lavish praise on you Gary!

IAC - Peacock.
The good points here are the sharpness of the subject against a very attractive out-of-focus background. However, the squarely, centre frame composition is boring, and the subject is both tatty and holding it's wings unattractively. A better subject, and composition would create a winner - both easy to do!

Gwenhwyfar - Duke
The pugnacious nature of the Duke is portrayed in this beautiful photograph. Technically it is faultless, depth of field throwing the subject and it's eye-catching perch against the subdued background. Perhaps there is a touch too much space to the right? Yet again Lisa produces something special - consistently one of the best photographers on this site!

Andrew Mc - Marsh Fritillary
This has really good composition, but the subject is unsharp, and the background is distracting. Sadly this is unavoidable with the sort of camera you are using, the tiny sensor means that with your lens at 5.8mm, the F2.8 that you have used here still gives a huge depth of field. It also is the reason for the lack of sharpness.

Fishiee - Pear-bordered Fritillary
Sharp as a tack, beautifully exposed, but square in the centre of the frame! An interesting subject, but not the subject for a photo competition. I wouldn't want it on my wall, but I would have loved to have taken it myself!!
I have seen you post so many better pictures in the past that I am at a loss as to why you chose this one for the competition?

Twitcher - Green Hairstreak
Personally speaking there are two things I don't like to see in competition entries - fingers or tatty butterflies. The exposure, focussing, and dark background are excellent. Given a better subject and had you placed them on a nice leaf or flower, you would have had a winner.

Jackharr - Wood White
Jack - you are one of the most improved photographers on this site. Your pictures are technically and compositionally much better than last year. This Wood White is excellent. The difficulties of properly exposing white butterflies have been overcome, and the perch is included and beautiful. Sadly, the small sensor on your camera has made the background sharp and distracting. Please get an SLR - you will do it credit.
p.s. I loved the oak ;-) - but the wood white is better

roundwood123 - Orange Tip
Well exposed, well focussed and lovely background - but please get the finger out of it!

LCPete - Pearl-bordered Fritillary
The butterfly is superbly photographed, and the background is wonderful. However (and don't take this too harshly) the composition is poor. The butterfly has it's head hard up to the rhs of the frame, and there is a large space behind it. This gives an awkward, unbalanced feel. If the butterfly had been positioned to the left, and shown more of that attractive bracken frond to the right, it would have been a superb shot.

Markulous - Orange Tip
This photo has the WOW factor in spades, backlit, beautifully composed, and light areas in the background actually enhancing the picture. One of the best photographs I have ever seen. If only the butterfly had been ‘looking’ into, rather than out of, the picture. Well done.

Sussex Kipper - Small Heath
I love the symmetry of this picture. The butterflies are beautifully shot, and show excellent detail. My only criticism (and probably not solvable in this instance) is the confusing background. A lovely shot.

Darrel - Green Hairstreak
Nice composition, and well photographed. It is a shame that the subject is a little tatty. Very nearly an excellent shot.

JKY - Map
A lovely subject, beautifully photographed. I particularly like th way it stands out against the plain background, and the way the colour of the stem is so complimentary to the butterfly. Given that, it might have been improved with a little greater depth of field putting the antennae and the stalk in focus.
It passes my "Would I like it hanging on my wall?" test really well. I was confused at first, considering you have used F10, with a touch of fill-in flash too, that you have such a shallow apparent depth of field.
Then I noticed that the leaf in front of the butterfly (towards the camera) is in focus. I think the point of focus was not on the butterflies wings, but probably 1cm or more closer to the camera? Nevertheless, an excellent picture.

steveh - Wood White
Really atmospheric shot - the great technical difficulties of properly exposing a white butterfly in tricky lighting have been well met. Perhaps portrait format may have been slightly better, but that is just nit-picking. Superb image. Well done.

Bill S - Duke
Slightly underexposed, and with the hind wings a little blurred, this image follows the identification guide "square in the centre of the frame" format. Step back a touch, get the fly diagonal in the screen, and stop down a bit, and this would be a winner.

Paulcrook - Green Hairstreak
A fascinating photograph. Certainly it deserves to be shared on this web-site, but is it a competition entry? I don't think so.

Roger Gibbons - Amanda's Blue
Well, what can I say. This is a stunner. Technically - exposure, focus and dof are perfect. The perch and background are so photogenic. Such a hard photo to fault. But it isn't really a UKB is it? Or does that matter?

Simon C - Glanville
Just wonderful. The subject and perch are superb, sharp, exposed perfectly, and beautiful. The background is as plain as you can get setting the subject off perfectly. Love it. Well done Simon.

Bryan H - Small Heath
Exquisite. Sharp (perhaps a bit over sharpened?) and well exposed and composed. Hard to fault. Turns an easily overlooked butterfly into something beautiful and eye-catching - top class effort.

Well, there we are. Please don’t take offence if you think I have been over critical, and all this is just my own, very humble, and probably misguided opinion.
I love this competition, and it has helped to raise my own game considerably. I hope that this, and other criticisms will help others to raise theirs!

Roger Harding
Last edited by Rogerdodge on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers

Roger
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Re: May 2008 Votes (LONG)

Post by JKT »

Rogerdodge wrote:JKY - Map
...Given that, it might have been improved with a little greater depth of field putting the antennae and the stalk in focus.
... I was confused at first, considering you have used F10, with a touch of fill-in flash too, that you have such a shallow apparent depth of field.
Then I noticed that the leaf in front of the butterfly (towards the camera) is in focus. I think the point of focus was not on the butterflies wings, but probably 1cm or more closer to the camera? Nevertheless, an excellent picture.
Heh, the small size really does forgive small focusing problems. In full size the blown focus was painfully obvious. I spent half an our on my knees trying to hunt it down, but it never stopped for long. The result was plenty of pictures - some of them even correctly focused - but the artistic look in this made the choice for me.
Rogerdodge wrote:Well, there we are. Please don’t take offence if you think I have been over critical, and all this is just my own, very humble, and probably misguided opinion.
I definitely did not, but it probably helps that I agree with you. :D If anything you were a bit soft in some cases. Anyway, thanks for the superb effort! Wish I had the time and energy for that.
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Re: May 2008 Votes

Post by Dave »

No meaness inferred at all - it's great to get constructive comments. It was basically the first shot I took pretty much this year and I never got around to changing it. I may enter again if I get anything but it's just a bit of fun but thanks for taking the time to critique and congrats to the very deserving winners.
Luv from Dave
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Denise
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Re: May 2008 Votes

Post by Denise »

Roger Wrote:- Denise - Small Blue
Lovely shot. The 3/4 view with wing tips and antennae in sharp focus shows really technique. Exposure is spot on. If there is anything to criticise here, perhaps the background is a little too sharp and distracting - but that would be nit-picking. Great effort.


Thank you Roger for being kind! I was a little worried when you said that you would post crits, (I feared the worst) but I was happy with this, my second entry with a descent camera. Any advice makes me appreciate my downfalls and hopefully produce a better image in the future.
Cheers

Denise
Last edited by Denise on Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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