More from Pyrenees-Orientales

[Tony Moore]

I would be grateful for some help with IDs for these butterflies. Being something of a glutton for self-embarrassment, I'll venture my own thoughts - if I have any - with each photo

Is this orbifer ?

No idea...

Bright-eyed Ringlet?

amoricanus ?

I watched these Blues hook up - it only took a couple of seconds. I thought they were icarus, but now wonder if they might be amandus despite being a bit wee.

This last was a bright, shining blue, especially around the hindwing margin:

Thanks, à l'avance,

Tony M.

[Padfield]

Hi Tony.

The first skipper is sertorius - orbifer doesn't fly in the Pyrenees (to the best of my knowledge!).
I suspect the next skipper is malvoides but Pyrgus without an underside is always a bit of a guess.
The Erebia is meolans.
The next two skippers are carthami - the underside is unmistakable when you know it.
Finally, the mating pair and the last upperside are indeed amandus.

Guy

[Tony Moore]

Thanks, Guy,

I'm sure that without this site, I'd give up and collect stamps...

I should also stick to English names - I meant Red-underwing rather than the Orbed variety, which I knew didn't fly that far west. Any pointers as to why meolans? I saw quite a few Erebias. They all looked very black and I assumed they were all the same. I have a couple more pix, which I'll post. Did you get any further with the 'Meadow' Frits?

Bien cordialment,

Tony.

[David M]

Hi Tony. Sorry to 'hijack' the conversation but your erebia looks to be a male, which rules out oeme, since the males of this species have forewing ocelli surrounded only by a small patch of orange.

Admittedly, female oeme have more in the way of orange than the males, but any underside view would be definitive, as the markings are very, very different to those of meolans.

[Tony Moore]

Thanks for the 'pointers', David. Here are another couple from the area:

Tony.

[Roger Gibbons]

One pointer to meolans is that the upf red post-discal band is cut at the veins. You can reduce the candidates by the shape of this band, but only in meolans is the band "cut" into sections and it is not smooth at the internal edge. It has a very small ocellus in upf s6 (but only in the left wing) which is not in line with the ocelli in s4/5 - this says it is not triaria, where the s6 ocellus is always in line with those below it. You mentioned that the Erebias looked black, Tony, which is another pointer to meolans as the underside is very dark, especially in the male where it is black.

I would go along with malvoides for the uncertain Pyrgus and for good measure, I would suggest that all of your candidate parthenoides are just that. It is a very variable species and the oblique line is nice if it is clear but I don't think this is always the case, and I think in any case it doesn't necessarily apply to the female. The undersides look right for parthenoides although there are no definitive features, but athalia has heavy shading around the unf lunule in s2 - also true for the upf. Parthenoides is very orange, and this seems to hold true across the range of populations. I think you can discount deione and varia and I don't think any of these look right for diamina vernetensis, especially the undersides, although I don't have a lot of experience of this subspecies having seen it only a few times.

Roger

PS just seen your recent post and these last two look very much like oeme on a quick glance (Euro 2016 is beckoning)

[Padfield]

I always feel relieved when Roger agrees with me!

And yes, the last are oeme. Another useful thing to be aware of is the position of the ocelli in the hindwing orange. In meolans the ocelli push towards the outer edge of each lozenge. In oeme they are central. As David says, there is no possibility of confusion if you have an underside but this is one of the features my eye automatically registers when I see an upperside.

Guy

Re the undersides of vernetensis and similar subspecies/forms - they typically lack the dark points characteristic of the nominate subspecies and look much more like athalia. I have had great difficulty with Melitaea in the Pyrenees, whereas in Switzerland one glance is enough for an ID of any species.

[Tony Moore]

Thank you so much Roger and Guy,

Such pointers are just brilliant for a tyro comme moi. Very relieved by your parthenoides comments, Roger, they were the commonest Fritillary where I was and most were fresh and very orange. I also saw several PBFs which seemed miles brighter than any that I had seen in UK, especially the undersides - must be the wine ...

Tony.