Fritillaries from Southern France part 2

[Philzoid]

This is the second set as stated. There may be a couple of parthenoides in there too:-

A

B

C

D parthenoides?

E parthenoides?

F

G

H

I

J same butterfly as "I"

K

L diamina?

M

N

O same butterfly as "N"

Finally I've repeated a picture from my France posting part 2. Chris (cjackson) picked up on my 'Gatekeeper' and is pretty convinced it is a female Southern Pyronia cecilia and not P. Tithonus Having looked at it again I'm inclined to agree for the reasons I comment in that post:- he more extensive orange on the hind-wing, the lack of any hint of an eyespot on the hind-wing too, plus the indent next to the forewing large eyespot.

Any further views on this

The white is I think Green-veined Pieris napi f. Meridionalis.

Thanks for your consideration

Phil

[David M]

I'd say H is parthenoides. Not at all sure about the pyronia.

[Philzoid]

I'd say H is parthenoides. Not at all sure about the pyronia.

Is that Just H? Not sure what the distinguishing feature is for parthenoides but the forewing broken post discal line is one of the features I've been using going for and D looks a good candidate .... perhaps

wonder if Guy can chip in with regard to the Pyronia (and the dark underside Erebia from France post 7 ). Afterwards I promise to let it rest

Also Any views on the white?

Phil

[David M]

Image D isn't demonstrating that 'backslash' that is indicative of parthenoides, so I would personally not be convinced were these my photographs. That doesn't mean it isn't, it just means I'm not sure (I guess Roger or Guy will be better placed to judge).

[Philzoid]

I see what you mean about the slash ... "oblique in s1b" and image H certainly has it better than the others.

Thanks David

[Tony Moore]

Are there any underside characteristics, which enable the separation of athalia and parthenoides? and, for that matter varia. Are the experts able to distinguish any of these difficult M species by jizz? I'm hoping to see these species next year and any tips would be very much appreciated.

Tony M.

[Roger Gibbons]

The s1 upf discal mark of D is oblique-ish and large and certainly not classic, but probably within the bounds of parthenoides. I wouldn’t rule it out on this. Also the uph discal line is missing, suggestive of male parthenoides, although athalia can sometimes exhibit this. The absence of shading around the upf marginal lunule in s2 is quite strongly pointing away from athalia, so I would be inclined to conclude that parthenoides is favourite here.

G could well be a female parthenoides.

N could be deione. It looks very red, although this could just be the camera angle or shade. The underside of the palpi look rather orange, which would be strongly indicative of deione. I very rarely see the deione underside, so I’m working from limited experience – Guy will know better than me.

The Pyronia is almost certainly cecilia as Chris says.

Must stop looking at these at midnight!

Roger

[Philzoid]

Thanks very much Roger and for dissecting out the various clues to parthenoides . I'm also pleased to have persisted with the Pyronia cecilia with big thanks to Chris Jackson for spotting my error and for his back-up photos and info .

Must stop looking at these at midnight!

That's because there are people like me posting in stuff . One of these days I'll get an early night (@ Camel) .

BTW image A intrigues me too. Sorry, ignore that last statement

Phil