Pyrgus

[Reverdin]

Please may I canvas opinion on the following single skipper, cacaliae or alveus, I think I know which I prefer, but would be very grateful for confirmation...

sorry about the really poor underside, it's all I got

will write up my Italian Alpine trip in due course, not covering myself in glory so far, but one new species, E. gorge at 3000m..... decided to walk down, got lost 400m lower and had to walk back up again - thought I was gonna die but here I am

I do have better shots (for me) of Apollo and orbitulus undersides, and petropolitana, but not much else otherwise, - early days

If you want to meet up Guy, PM me, otherwise I will just bungle about on my own - in Demodossola 13-14/7

[John Vergo]

Hi Reverdin
I would ID this skipper as a cacaliae.
1. the white mark on fw is very small and few
2. no marks on the hw (as fare as I can see)
3. no white spot near base ( underside photo)
best regards
john

[Padfield]

Hi Paul. I certainly intend to meet you when you come to Domodossola. I doubt rivularis will still be flying but morpheus will be.

I'm afraid I'm not so sold on the cacaliae, though. I hear what John V says, but I have never seen cacaliae with the second white mark in the discal region, after the cell mark. There is always a small cell mark and nothing outside it. Have a look at this couple - which are absolutely typical:



The wing texture looks wrong too, and the completeness of the discal band on the unh is at least unusual. This is a typical underside of cacaliae:



There is a strong central mark, with a gap below it.

I agree your butterfly doesn't have a strong basal mark in s.2 but it is worn and there is at least some white there. In cacaliae this region may show some white, with an ill-defined outer edge, when the butterfly is very fresh, but I suspect this is the opposite - a once clear white mark that is now worn.

Finally, to my eye it just doesn't look like cacaliae. Of course, Pyrgus makes fools of the best of us and I could be quite wrong, but I prefer this for alveus.

Now, what you could do, of course, is go back to my flavofasciata site with me, get flavo and loads of free cacaliae thrown in ...


(flavofasciata with cacaliae)

PM me with your availability for Domodossola or Switzerland. I'm off for christi this weekend and as soon as possible will be bivvying up a mountain with Minnie again for asteria (too far for a day trip)...

Guy

[Reverdin]

Before I posted the above, I made an assumption in the field it was cacaliae, but on later study I felt alveus more fitting... so that's the conclusion I had very uncertainly come to!! - Hence my query, and thank you both for your thoughts. Lots of what I am seeing here is very worn, not much fresh stuff about.

Here's another ridiculous query.... no upperside photo, though in flight seemed pale-ish blue with broad margin, female, but which, not a lot of tell-tale markings and I didn't get to see any cell spot. It was small for Icarus, but?????...

I re-lived THE climb already this week Guy, not sure I could do it again, though I hate the thought that ANY species could be out of my reach - especially one as beautiful as flavio - let me think about it. morpheus would be a marvellous compensation!

[John Vergo]

Hi Reverdin and Padfield
I must admit that this little worn fellow fooled me, sorry Good with the input from Padfield
br
john